Are you too old to climb Mt. Everest? Not if you start now! And it’s not only mountain climbing that keeps you in shape, mentally and physically, it’s the outdoors. As Hersh points out, a guy named Noah spent two years building an ark - and lived to be 950! In this episode, he discusses the real fountain of youth with Martin Pazzani, author of international best seller Secrets of Aging Well: GET OUTSIDE, a TED Speaker, Founder of an innovative brain fitness startup, and a mountaineer who has hiked and climbed 100,000,000 uphill steps across 7 continents, over 50 years.
Having done time in the corporate world, Martin now is a serial entrepreneur, focused on longevity and anti-aging techniques, and he’s on a mission to reinvent the fitness business as upstream preventive healthcare and in so doing radically change the trajectory of aging.
About Martin Pazzani
Martin Pazzani is a former corporate Chairman & CEO, the author of
international best seller "Secrets of Aging Well: GET OUTSIDE"; a TED
Speaker; Founder of an innovative brain fitness startup; and a
mountaineer who has hiked and climbed 100,000,000 uphill steps
across 7 continents, over 50 years. His background is in in big company marketing and strategy (Heublein/Diageo, Bally Total Fitness, Crunch Fitness), Madison
Avenue advertising agencies (Foote, Cone and Belding Worldwide and
DDB Worldwide), and CEO in the commercial music business (Elias
Music). He’s also the Co-Founder of a luxury craft tequila brand, Tears
of Llorona, and soon several luxury craft bourbon brands.
He has many years in the fitness business studying innovation,
competitive strategy, and customer experience. Now as a serial
entrepreneur, he’s focused on longevity and anti-aging techniques, and
he’s on a mission to reinvent the fitness business as upstream
preventive healthcare and in so doing radically change the trajectory of
Martin Pazzani on Truth Tastes Funny with Hersh Rephun
[00:00:00] Hersh: The funny thing about aging is that it starts pretty early, but it doesn't have to suck. Maybe there's an alternative to shelling out tons of money for doctors, medications, and machines to prop us up while we slowly fall apart. And the answer may be right outside our door. This is my conversation with Martin Pazzani.
[00:00:23] The Truth Tastes Funny podcast is brought to you in part by The KOSHER Brand, bringing wear back to the street, the kosher brand, it's all good unifying people, bringing people together through street art, streetwear and also through the, non-prime. Keep it kosher project, which is under the auspices of creative visions foundation, giving artists the tools and platform for voice.
[00:00:48] So we're really happy to have the support on this show. My guest today is the author of the international bestseller "Secrets of Aging Well: Get Outside!". He's a Ted speaker, founder of an innovative brain fitness startup and a mountaineer who's hiked and climbed. Yes, a hundred million uphill steps across seven continents and over 50 years.
[00:01:10] And and we are thrilled to have Martin Pisani on today. Martin, thank you for coming.
[00:01:16] Martin Pazzani: Great to be here, Hersh, I'm thrilled to reconnect with you after all these years. And I'm so pleased to be able to do this with you.
[00:01:22] Hersh: We worked together at Elias. That was during your marketing days as an executive, you worked with agencies, you worked with brands.
[00:01:30] I know you, you worked with Bally fitness for a while, so you, I think similar to me, we both have a lot of work experiences that have contributed in some way to the whole, to what we're focusing on now. I want to start with, I actually want to start with, with kind of an embarrassing moment of mine or an embarrassing fact.
[00:01:53] I ha it's not super embarrassing, but I have a terrible fear of heights. So when I think about mountaineering I always wonder: what would it feel like if I actually summited, you know, a mountain, like what's your earliest memory you know, in the book is, is marvelous and takes us through so many layers of this experience, but w what's your earliest memory of mountaineering?
[00:02:22] Martin Pazzani: Well, you know, first of all, I'm going to address your fear of heights thing because that's how it, you know, if you don't have a healthy fear of heights, I think you're insane. Every climber, even those who do extremely incredible feats, you know, vertical walls, Yosemite and all that, have a fear of heights. It's important because it's an easy way to get killed if you don't, it keeps, it gives you the respect for what it is you're doing. So you get to conquer that fear in little steps, you start out with smaller hills, you start out with then medium Hills. And so my first real mountain was when I was. 14 with my father. We climbed Mount Washington in New Hampshire, and it's only 6,288 feet but by the Northeast standards. It's the tallest peak and you can fall a thousand feet down a cliff if you're not careful. So you get to understand in, in small increments in steps, the respect for it. So by the time I started climbing very tall mountains and. As you know, from the book, my, my favorite mountain is the Matterhorn. I've done it a lot. There's, there's a 4,000 foot vertical wall on the matter of where you can easily fall the whole length of that, but you've conquered. In your head, the ability to, to break it down into small pieces and not fear the height let's face it. A 50 foot fall was going to kill you. So 4,000 or 50 is still going to get killed.
[00:03:51] So the rest becomes, it becomes a mental challenge. And, and if you're competent and you add the skills layer by way. It's like anything, it becomes less daunting. There are many things that are, to me, very daunting that I have great respect for people who can get to them layer by layer. And it's the same in anything you do.
[00:04:12] You, you start small and you work your way up to a competence and the skill is in your head. It's, it's more mental than physical, too. Fear of Heights and but you know, you're not ever really conquered. You just control it. Having a fear of Heights is important because you, you can easily get killed if you if you, if you lose that respect
[00:04:30] Hersh: if you watch the BMX stuff and you see some of these stunts where they are riding down a mountain and I wonder, is it, is it skill or is it like almost a foolhardiness or or yeah.
[00:04:42] Like a lack of fear that drives someone to be able to do that without, without falling. In other words, is there some part of that person that either has a lack of fear or a, or a Supreme skill? Yeah.
[00:04:58] Martin Pazzani: Both of those things exist. Actually. I should say the fearlessness usually resides in you. because you have not had a near death experience or or a serious injury yet. When you're young, you do think you're indestructible. And then at some point in life, you realize you're not, you either get injured badly, you take a fall, you crash. And so some of what you see in those real extreme sports is that complete fearlessness based on the fact that yeah, they combine some incredible skills, but never had a serious injury or a near death experience. As you put on the age, as you put on the miles, as you get experience, you start to have more close calls. I've had a number of really close calls and, and it makes me more respectful. I lost the invincibility effect of youth, and now I have a great respect for staying alive.
[00:05:51] That's the whole point of it. I kinda, the older you get themore controlled you want those risks to be the more competent you get, the more you understand the mental battle, and it's kind of a complex interplay between risk and reward and, and how much are you willing to, how much risk are you willing to accept?
[00:06:09] But, you know, as you get older, it's probably goes down a little bit, you know, you really respect the years and, and your, and your life a little bit more, I think.
[00:06:17] Hersh: We're taught that age is a certain thing we're taught that 50 55 is old. We're taught that 60 is old You know, how did you, how did you prove that wrong?
[00:06:27] Martin Pazzani: There are two seminal events for me. One is that as I referred to in the book, I was about 35. I was in that sort of fearless age. I was training for a big mountain and I was climbing Mount Washington, whatever, which I've done about a hundred times. And I bumped into on accident a 75 year old guy or trail running uphill on Mount Washington.
[00:06:48] And he was. in way better shape than I was here I am. I think I'm in the prime of my life at 35 and there's a 75 year old guy kicking my ass up and running up hill. And it hit me that like, wow, I didn't know. That was possible. Cause when my grandfather was 60, he could barely walk up the stairs and here is a guy, much older and it really rocked my world.
[00:07:07] And it really was a turning point mentally that you can control the way you age by staying active. And I'd said to him, as he passed by me, I said, how are you doing this? He said, well, I live just down the road. I do this two or three times a week. I've been doing it since I was your age. sonny, see you later.
[00:07:25] And he blew past me and it occurred to me that if you don't slow down, if you don't give into aging, if you don't in your head, think you're supposed to slow down. You can stay fit and, and that's what I've done. And that guy really just changed the trajectory of my life by showing me that. And then I also about 10 years ago, cross paths with two entrepreneurs in the fitness business who were in their mid eighties and still going into the office every day.
[00:07:53] And you know, traditional corporate world, they sort of start to put you out to pasture in your late 50's, certainly in your 60's. And these guys were in their eighties working every day. Now, granted they own the company, but they were still active, vital, sharp as could be. And I, and it, it hit me, I guess I was about 50 at the time.
[00:08:11] I said, you know, you don't have to give in to that decline of aging. And, and I do not intend to, I, I plan on working full time until I'm 75 or 80, which is more than 10 years down the road. And I and I, I think, and I've also seen too many of my friends and neighbors who retire at 62. And then by the time you see them, a couple of years later, they seem like they've aged a decade.
[00:08:38] In a couple of years, they stop using their brain. They move less, they interact with people less. They have fewer friends, they aren't challenging them. And you age and all that is added up to me that I think we just, in our heads retired too young. We give up, we give into aging. And the whole reason I wrote that book was to show that you can remain active.
[00:09:00] You don't have to give into aging. And certainly in my generation and your generation, we have a different outlook than our parents did. It was assumed you had to retire in your sixties because you probably weren't going to live that long. But now, you know, life expectancy in the eighties, what are you going to do with yourself if you retire young for 20 or 30 or more years, watch television or play golf. It just seems so wasteful of the years to retire and then do nothing for so long and inevitably leads to illness and, and a slow decline. And it's a boring life to me it is anyway. So I intend to stay as active as I can. I'm you know, I think I've got a lot more productive years in, in, in entrepreneurship and corporate world after I don't intend to let 40 plus years of business experience go to waste. I want to use it and not only help people, but create companies, create jobs, do things interesting and travel and stay active.
[00:09:57] There's no point to me retiring means giving in, giving up.
[00:10:01] Hersh: Well, what I love about it is that. You know, you talk about how, how you have, you had reached a point in your corporate life where you were letting yourself go. You were losing, you know, stamina age you know, the, the, the, the you were putting on weight and you weren't working out, you know, you're traveling millions of miles a year but the good news is that all the stuff you were doing in those years, Is serving you now as an entrepreneur, I imagine, you know I never pursued that. What I consider to be corporate you know, the system I never really was. I worked for some big production companies, I guess, but I didn't have corporate oversight.
[00:10:44] And so I always was kind of a you know, a service provider or an entrepreneur in some way, a small business owner, a community. When I started doing standup again, I was making fun of my age and lately before I read the book. But certainly after reading the book, I'm starting to feel like, you know, who am I serving by telling people that I'm old or middle-aged? You know what I, I like Methuselah was 969 and Noah was 950. And you know, that like the ark probably that whole experience probably took off a few years. You know, he probably would have even lasted longer. So if people can get into their nine hundreds, you know, who are we to, to, to feel old and decrepit it at 55 or 60?
[00:11:34] Martin Pazzani: Yeah. I agree. You know, it's all, it's all what you've been programmed to believe. And, you know, I think it's all it's happening very fast, you know? All of a sudden this baby boomer generation is living longer and trying to figure out what to do with all those extra years. Right? The baby boomer generation has a tendency to change categories and to push companies to do things for them.
[00:11:56] There's this thing developing called the longevity economy. It's a monstrous part of the economy and it will get larger going forward, but it's all the businesses and services that are designed to serve people above age 50, between age 50 and 100, which by the way, centenerians. The fastest growing part of the population, people above 100.
[00:12:16] So you, you know, by taking care of yourself, by eating properly, by staying active, by not being stupid, you know, taking ridiculous risks, you can extend the number of healthy years that you have and might as well use that productively. Now, I guess the world health organization or the CDC or one of those folks has recently redefined.
[00:12:39] The categories of aging. So that middle age now goes to age 75. Did you know that? So we're technically middle age. I remember I was looking at my grandfather when he tried to fix the, I thought he was ancient and, and he was because he was acting ancient. He had retired and he was, you know, not very fit and I just don't want to be that kind of.
[00:12:58] Of a 60, 70, 80 year old, I want to stay active. I want to, I want to ski I, I went skiing earlier this week in bend, Oregon. It at Mount bachelor at nearly 10,000 feet. And I felt that, you know, I'm 66. I felt like I was skiing pretty good for someone who was in their thirties. I used to be a ski racer. So I, I I'm, I'm a pretty good skier.
[00:13:20] And it's like riding a bike, you know, it was it, but I was bombing up and down the Hills with my 39 year old son. I felt pretty good about it actually. I intend to ski until I'm 80, if I can. So, you know, I think the key is not giving in and staying active, constantly working out, being fit, moving, challenging yourself, working.
[00:13:40] I think you can really change the trajectory of the way you age and that's kind of become my mission. And again, that's why I wrote the book is the kind of share that thinking with people who I think. There's a tendency to want to retire and, and give up and give into age. And I, I fight that
[00:13:59] Hersh: What effect do you think all of this has on how we deal with some of the just bizarre and really harsh and really scary realities that we face from, from climate change to to whatever side of the spectrum you're on politically in the world pandemic, all these things that are, that are pretty heavy.
[00:14:23] If you add them all up together, how does the outdoors help?
[00:14:29] Well, you know, it's an interesting question because I do spend a lot of time outdoors. You want to hear a crazy number? I just saw it. I think it was the world health organization published a number that said human beings spend 92% of their lives indoors and that's gone up and up and up. And certainly during the pandemic, we spent more, when the antidote to me and I did this all throughout the pandemic, I got outside more than ever, because I was going stir crazy. Working from home doing zoom meetings. So I needed to get out even more. And so I have found out, I have discovered, I had witnessed that people who spend more time outdoors are more sensitive to planet issues.
[00:15:18] They don't litter as much. They take care of themselves. They clean up after themselves. They they're respectful of the trails and they're respectful of the outdoors. And I think that goes a long way towards living. It's the harmony with the planet. I think you know, people who, whose wives have a strong component of getting outdoors, not only live longer and have, you know, there's other many other benefits, but I think they do have more respect for these issues because they understand we've got this one planet and we've got to take care of it, right?
[00:15:49] Martin Pazzani: You know, I think the pandemic obviously changed a lot of thinking on all this stuff, you know, and I discovered. You know, I, I kind of like zoom for a lot of reasons.
[00:16:00] Cause I, you know, like you, I spent so much time on an airplane, I think back over the decades. Couldn't I done some of that over zoom that I have to get away from friends and family and put so many miles on. If we had a tool like that and I, I, I'm glad it's there on the other hand, I, I don't think it's a good substitute for face-to-face.
[00:16:18] I don't like the working at home all the time. Just zooming with everybody. It reduces the serendipity that we have when you interact with people, when you're in the same office, in the same environment, you don't plan, you can't plan the magic of creativity. You can't plan the spontaneity of an interaction that creates something big.
[00:16:37] There's sort of a magical chemistry that comes from people interacting together, and that is gone from zoom. And I, I worry about companies and the economy dealing too much with now with zooming and, and. People getting together and interacting and seeing face to face and expressions. You know, every weird encounter I've had in the last two or three years happened because of texting, not, not just zoom, but I'm talking about how easy it is to misunderstand people via text and w where incidents would never happen.
[00:17:14] If you were dealing face-to-face with someone, you would never have an argument or disagreement. Yeah, I mean, you might, but I mean, the point is it's so easy to misunderstand someone on zoom or text, and it's just a different dynamic and I'm, I've become very, very much a fan. There's a, there's a couple of books around, but there's an author named Nicholas Carr's written the book called the shallows and talks about how the internet and zoom and technology has rewired our brains in a way that isn't necessarily conducive to great relationships and, and creativity. And as you know, you know, I'm in the brain health business. So I'm very aware of a concept called neuroplasticity where through exercise and movement, you can rewire your brain to, to live longer, basically to stay active longer.
[00:18:03] But you can also through inactivity and technology, excessive use of technology. rewire your brain in a bad way. And I'm, I'm concerned about that balance at this point. I think we have a whole generation of people who are so dependent on their phone, looking at that flat screen of their phone and technology.
[00:18:22] They're going to spend more time into. Instead of more time outdoors, which is the, which, you know, we're human beings are made to be moving outdoors. We're made to be absorbing, you know, the solar energy and, and, and breathing fresh air and listening to nature. We're not made to be sitting in a, in a sterile office, looking at a flat screen all day.
[00:18:42] It's not good for us. It's not good for our longevity or our creativity.
[00:18:46] Hersh: Yeah. I mean, I go back and forth, you know, When I'm home, I sometimes feel like I'm missing out
[00:18:53] you know, I was in a Lyft this morning and it was a short drive was maybe 10 minutes. And the driver asked me what I did. I told him about the podcast and it turns out he's a recently retired mental health professional. And is just a perfect counselor speaker guest for my podcast, which has a lot to do with mental health, a lot to do with, with kind of keeping it together.
[00:19:19] And that's not a person I would ever come across. You know, I would never come across that guy, that Lyft driver who happens to be a public speaker, happens to have been a counselor for 35 years. It just wouldn't happen. Right. And, and I need that in my life.
[00:19:36] I need those, those mysteries to unfold at the same time when I'm traveling, sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish I was just back at the house with the family, you know, back in my basement, in my basement office, you know, as long as the weather isn't too terrible, like that's depressing. You find having to stay in doors and living in a climate where a lot of the year it's not conducive to being outside. That's not good for me. I'm not liking that.
[00:20:05] Martin Pazzani: Yeah. I, listen. I think we all have to have more respect for the power of being outside and nature to make us more productive, make us less stressed, to make us more creative, to improve our relationships, to introduce that sense of getting out there and, and the surprise, the mystery of an adventure that's important. and part of the issue that we've had worldwide for the last two years has been, that's been gone. People have been sequestered and, and not taking risks and not taking, not having adventures. And you, by the way, I don't know if you've traveled recently as if I airports are as crowded as ever and even more.
[00:20:45] So I think there's pent up demand to get out there and see the world and interact with people and get outside trail. All across the country, there's cars. You've got to get there really early to get a parking spot and a Trailhead now because people really do, it's all pent up. And I think we're responding to things very in a very human, in a very primitive way, which is I just got to get outside more.
[00:21:08] I got to see people, I got to talk more. I got to get out there and experience the world. And that's critical. That's critical.
[00:21:15] Hersh: So, so Martin will talk to me a little bit about, about fitness and and your views on it. You're you you've worked in every category, I think professionally. So, so given the fitness is such a big part of your life. What do you think about that?
[00:21:29] Martin Pazzani: Yeah, you know, it is, I've worked, as you said, Hersh,, I've worked in a lot of categories from music to, to spirits and wines and automotive and consumer packaged goods.
[00:21:38] But my favorite category is fitness for a lot of reasons. Cause I, I personally. I like to stay fit. I've been a member of a fitness clubs since 1979 nonstop. I try to stay fit. And my, my avocation of mountaineering demands that I, that I keep a certain level of fitness. I have strayed a few times over the years because of work and the demands of travel, but I generally have stayed pretty fit for my age.
[00:22:03] Now, interestingly, when I. Officially joined the fitness industry in 2003 as chief marketing officer of Bally and crunch, which at the time was the world's largest fitness company. My job was to broaden the category, to broaden the company. The company had been stagnant and we realized very quickly, we did some really landmark research set, spent up a million dollars.
[00:22:28] Research that has never been done before to learn what prevented people from going into the gym. And there was this pervasive belief that you had to get fit before you joined the gym or you'd be embarrassed or humiliated. And that literally keeps two thirds of the people. Potential market away from the gym.
[00:22:50] And so my mission, I, since then, I've, I've tried to welcome the people who need it most, you know, people like Arnold Schwartzenegger and the disciples of, you know, of bodybuilding and weightlifting and the real, super athletes. They don't need to be coaxed into the gym. It's easy for them. Most people do need.
[00:23:09] A little, they don't want to be embarrassed. They don't want to be humiliated and they need a different kind of a customer experience. And that gets even more pronounced with age. There's a big drop-off in gym membership above age 50. And that's because the customer experience isn't particularly can do.
[00:23:27] To P T to an aging target audience. So again, that's one of the reasons I wrote the book. The book is about getting fitness, that didn't depend on the gym. Get outside workout, hike, climb gets you fit. The other side of my, one of my missions has been to create customer experience. Specifically focused on people above age 50, who need different kinds of workouts that, and not so much into weightlifting, although weightlifting is great for it for an aging body, but they want more, what's called functional fitness, which is a kind of fitness that teaches you how to exist in the world.
[00:24:02] How, how, how to keep your balance, how, how to prevent falls. How to stay strong enough to lift your luggage, play with your grandchildren, stay mobile, stay active, stay cognitively sharp. Those are important things to people. As you get older, when you're younger, you want to look good in the swimsuit.
[00:24:16] You want to look like, you know, you want to look like a bodybuilder, some people do or an athlete, but that, that kind of changes. As you get older, when you get older, it's about living a happier, healthier, longer wife and not getting sick at night and not declining and not. And taking care of yourself in a way.
[00:24:33] So you don't get diabetes, you don't get high blood pressure. You don't have a heart condition and you don't go into cognitive decline and you do that through aging. So. My mission is to figure out ways to use fitness as what I call upstream, preventive healthcare, which is basically stay fit enough so that you don't get sick so that you never have to deal with the, the melodies of aging until you're very, very old.
[00:25:02] And there's this concept that I love, it's called compressed morbidity, which is basically. And to shorten it into a phrase live long, die fast, which means you stay active, stay active for a really long time. And I've seen this happen numerous times. And then in your nineties or older, hopefully you get, you get sick and you die quickly, though.
[00:25:25] The opposite of that is this long, slow, unhealthy decline where you're spending most of your life saving. Medical condition on medical services and medicine, and your family is all impacted by your constant need for the emergency room or a doctor or a medical care. That is that's just an expensive and sad way to live.
[00:25:46] I just, I hope people understand that they can take charge of that. They don't have to give in to them by staying active. They can live long, die, fast, a much, much better way. I believe in that Martin, because I, I, I feel personally that I take too much medication. Like I have, I had high blood pressure, a AFib, you know, things like that.
[00:26:10] And you find yourself, you know, I had I've had crones since I was, since I was a, you know, child and thankfully I've really gone through the last 20 years or so with very, very. Distress from that, but still I found myself in the last 10 years starting to take medications that I feel like I see every time I go for my checkup, I go, can I get off this stuff?
[00:26:36] Can I just get off this stuff? Lower my blood pressure. You know, I mean, my weight is not, I'm not, you know, as some kind of, out of control, hyper eater, lethargic. I, you know, I, I should be okay. To clear the decks of some of those meds, least. I at least I believe so. I think that's a worthy goal. You know, I, I have long felt and again, modern medicine can do wonders.
[00:27:06] They can, you know, they can fix a lot of things and they've kept lifespans longer on the other hand. I think a lot of that can be done by taking care of yourself. The concept of upstream, preventative health care can prevent a lot of that from ever being necessary. I often feel that doctors are too quick to write a prescription and it's very easy for us to fall into the trap of adding medication after medication, after medication.
[00:27:33] And as a result, you become an I hate, I hate thinking this. We become instead of patient. We become recurring revenue streams for the medical community. I mean, once you get somebody hooked on blood pressure medicine, or it's, it's just automatic, the insurance pays for it. You're writing out the prescription.
[00:27:52] You go to CVS once a month and you're walked into that. I'm, I'm trying to resist that if I can, as long as I can. I, okay. I mentioned I'm 66. I wear that. I, I think that that's a really good age to be. Cause I got all this experience and I still have energy and youth and, and, and this is the honest truth. I take no medications whatsoever.
[00:28:15] I have nothing. And I'm trying to keep that as long as I can. Yeah, knock on wood, but I'm trying to use the concept of upstream preventive healthcare on myself by work. I work out four or five times a week. I hiked two or three times a week and I still, you know, I'm juggling two or three startups, so it can be done.
[00:28:36] You just have to make it a pre. And and for me it's been, it's been the central part of my wife, probably since, you know, since I left the music business, which, you know, that was actually as much as I love that business. When we work, we're working together, that was when I was the least fit the least healthy because it was that bi-coastal travel back and forth, you know, a lot of time on.
[00:28:58] Expensive expense account, dining, entertaining clients. You know, and then you're tired. And instead of working out, you take a nap or you sleep. And you know, that, that is, that is also a trap. And you know, a lot of us in corporate world or entrepreneurs fall into that. It's an easy trap to fall into. And I, my, my admonition is try not to fall too deeply into that trap.
[00:29:21] Stay fit, stay active. Don't overeat, eat more carefully. You can't. Take care of yourself in a way that prevents you from going down that path of one illness after another high blood pressure and digestion leads to GERD leads to hypertension, all that stuff can be taken. You can take charge of that if you need to, if you really want to
[00:29:46] Yeah. And, and, and I also think that you know, when we're in our. Forties. Let's say when we're like in the height of that, of that business pursuit, in that corporate pursuit or whatever, whatever it really is. And we're making all these trade-offs it's because we think we're still kind of borderline young, right?
[00:30:10] We're still kind of young enough, like when I was 40, I didn't feel old. And I was, you know, running around all over the world and I was, you know, and I think it's only in the last. You know, and I did more traveling through one company. I I've been fortunate in that in the last six years, I've traveled throughout Asia and I, I got to go for work to a lot of places that I had never traveled for leisure.
[00:30:35] So I was able to go to, to, to Thailand, to Taiwan, to Japan to China. And, but I think by the time I did that, I had a different outlook already in. I had my health in, in my mind too. Like I wanted, I wanted to experience that stuff, but I didn't feel like I was, oh, I'm in a different place every week. I'm a jet setter.
[00:31:02] Yeah. That's this receptive. I know. You know, you think about when you're. 40. You still remember when you're 25. It's like it wasn't that long ago. So you do still think you're young and, but you, I tend to think 50 is the point of which you start looking forward and starting start counting. Number of years, you have left when you're 40.
[00:31:22] Now you don't do that. You still think you've got time to offset it, to reverse everything. Yeah. You know, I'll lose those 20 pounds next year. Right now I'm going to have that extra glass of water. And yeah, I'll have a second stake. So you get, you get into that trap and it's a, it's a real easy trap, but yeah.
[00:31:41] As the years progress, you start to realize I better start taking care of. You know, you get a few symptoms here and there, you know, you, your, your, your weight goes up a little bit. And you know, I literally, I I, I gained a lot of weight in those years and the doctors wanted to put me on high blood pressure medicine.
[00:31:59] I said, you know, I just, I don't feel right about that. I think I should do this myself. And fortunately I did. I took off, you know, 40 pounds from that era. And I'm practically back at the way that I wasn't, I was 35, which I'm really kind of happy about. But that's important. And it's great. Yeah, I it's, and, but it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of discipline, but if I can do it, anybody can do it, frankly.
[00:32:19] Cause I was literally almost the poster child for a, you know, living life in the fast lane back and forth, you know, flying, you know, th during that era, you know, I fly off to Dubai, go to a conference, come back, go to Paris, then go to LA. You know, having an expensive meal at Ivy by the shore, then go to New York and entertain clients and downtown, you know, that's, it's very seductive to do that, but boy, you can't do that forever.
[00:32:44] You can't, you'll, you'll be not only burnt out, but it'll be really unhealthy, really unhealthy. No, I also feel like whenever I think of when I think of you and I think of the time that we work together, I always feel like I was a little bit of a smart. Was I like, I know, you know, Adam, my former partner and I, where we like, just like assholes a little bit, or we just, you should mention that.
[00:33:09] Well, you're supposed to be, you're a New York, LA PR guy. You're supposed to be that a little bit of that. Yeah. You know what I mean? I kind of look back and think I was the asshole during that period, because I was supposed to be cleaning up a company that needed cleaned up and you can't do that by being Mr.
[00:33:22] Nice. So I had to be kind of a. I used to complain to the private equity firm that owned the company. I said, you know, they're going to hate me. And if I, if I do what I have to do, and they said, yeah, but we'll like you more so with the guys on the court, you know, and it was a, it's a tough thing because you know, the music business, actually, it's a, it's such a fun business and the people in the music business, I mean, I think musicians are very special.
[00:33:45] They just have. And there's something about them that I really adore, but they're not particularly adept at business. And so some, somebody has to be the bad guy and I was unfortunately put in to be the bad guy and it hurts to be the bad guy to nice people. So yeah, it was kind of a weird period for me.
[00:34:02] Yeah, no, it was kind of funny, but no, you were not an asshole. I think I was the asshole action. Okay. Okay, good, good. I didn't want to save that. And I'd also didn't really think that you were in that unenviable place. Of laying down the law for people who were artists. And I was always more of the artists.
[00:34:21] Like I always identified with the artists, cause I didn't come from a corporate background. So I was always defending the artist. And that's my recollection is that it was a little bit of an unfortunate we were almost at somewhat of odds. We were working together. We just, you know, I was. To be the bad guy.
[00:34:41] That's what it was. Cause the problem with that company at the time. And it, and it had a lot of great features. I mean, the talent was unbelievable at a Watchman and just remarkable. The guys who created the company were too nice. And as the business got harder, I mean, you know, to put it into context hearse, you remember, remember that was the era where music was going from analog to digital and all the profits was being sucked out of the business.
[00:35:08] So the business had to change and, and, and some, and it wasn't going to be a musician who changed it. It was going to be a bad guy like me, who came in and made tough calls. And, and that was, that was what I was hired to do. And it was maybe unenviable. Well, that's the job, you know, sometimes you gotta do that.
[00:35:27] And it, it hurt to have to, you know, downsize and, and to make tough calls on people were basically nice people, really talented people. But the business was changing and look at apple did to the business. You remember that was also the Napster era where all of a sudden people music was free. I mean free.
[00:35:45] And so the, our customers, which were the ad agencies, or they didn't want to pay over premium prices for custom music anymore, they wanted free music from Napster. So how do you run a company with giving away free music? It can't be done. You have to change the company. So, yeah, I, it was a, it was a interesting period of adapting, trying to adapt a company from analog to digital on the fly.
[00:36:09] Really challenging, really. Yeah, well, I'm happy that we stayed in touch over the years. I'm happy for things like LinkedIn that happened to be like where we, where we remained connected. And then I saw your book because I was excited when I saw it when I saw your book. Because even when did it come out literally April of COVID literally the moment COVID started to get really serious on.
[00:36:39] Yeah, and I really, I really hope, but we'll have a link to, you know, on, on our webpage, we'll have a link to where people can get the book. Before we wrap up, is there anything else going on that you want to share that you want to tell us about that you're at Liberty to talk about? Yeah. You know, I've, I've always got plans going and I've got this, this sounds crazy.
[00:36:58] I know. Cause I'm a fitness guy. I also I started my career out, working at Heublein, which is the company that turned into Diasio the world's. Spirits, right? Yeah. So I've always maintained that I watched eight years. Oh. A tequila company. We have a very successful little tequila business on the side of craft to Cuba, but I'm about to.
[00:37:18] Three bourbons into the world with some really great bourbon maker partners. And, and while it seems like that's at odds with fitness, I actually, if it's not respectful, drinking is not a bad thing, a drink here, and there is a, it's an important enhancement to your life, overdoing it, like anything not good.
[00:37:38] So, you know, I'm, I, if it seems at odds, it's, I've, I've resolved it as responsible drinking. It's totally fine for, for, for adults. It's when it gets too far down the road and carried away that it's, it's detrimental to your health. But so I'm, I'm, I'm pushing ahead in that area. And I've got plans for a longevity company that are starting to simmer, which is really, really interesting to me.
[00:38:02] Again, the book triggered a lot of ideas about how to stimulate longevity for more people. And, and, and I think that's where my future. And I'm also writing a second edition to the book as we speak and hope to watch that at the end of this year. Because I got more stories to tell. And I think now that I'm a more experienced writer, I think I can improve on what I did.
[00:38:28] So yeah, again, my plan is to not give in to agent, to stay cognitively active, to create, to write the stay active, to keep launching companies out into the world. And I'm going to do that until I drop.
[00:38:42] Hersh: Well, I think we need to stay in touch and I find you inspiring. The book is Secrets of Aging Well: Get Outside!. Okay, get outside. And Martin thank you so much for coming on. And and you're welcome to come back anytime when you do have your longevity brand, when you have a, if you wanna, I'm, I'm a big fan of a bourbon and whiskey as well. I think, I think that anything in the extreme.
[00:39:11] It is, is kind of a little risky. Like if you were to do too much drink too much bourbon or never drink any bourbon or never try anything new or limit the foods to just the ones, you know, you know, you have to explore like, but use your, use your mind and keep your mind healthy. Keep your mind healthy through exercise.
[00:39:33] And totally thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it,
[00:39:37] Martin Pazzani: Hersh, I'm so glad we connected. This has been fun. It's it's really great. And I agree. I, I love LinkedIn for that reason. Oh. You know, stay in touch with people and watch how they evolve and grow. It's exciting. Good time to be alive, isn't it?
[00:39:48] Hersh: Amen.